TFMSX rev1

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Danoo
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Re: TFMSX rev1

Post by Danoo »

Great work Stephen, another future project to add to the list. :D Has there been any development of a sleep not required drug, now there is a gold mine ;)
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terriblefire
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Re: TFMSX rev1

Post by terriblefire »

This is all working now. Its an MSX2+ (or close enough). I still want to test a floppy controller with it.

512K of ram is found and mapped MSX2 style. The VDP9938 or 9958 can be used.

However before everyone gets too excited... the keyboard controller is a STM32F730 which is unfortunately unobtainium right now. It was specced before the crazy times
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Karloch
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Re: TFMSX rev1

Post by Karloch »

Thank you Stephen for sharing all the work you are doing with TFMSX, it's amazing! It just happen that both, MSX and Commodore Amiga, are the vintage computer that I use nowadays. The MSX doesn't just have an extensive game library with many masterpieces, it has a large very active user community that develop new hardware (video cards, sounds cards, mass storage devices...) and software for it. Each year multiple new software developments are launched for MSX, some of them are impressive enhancements to classic games (or this one), while others are new developments.

I wanted to make a pair of comments:
  1. Although it was not strictly speaking part of the MSX2+ standard, most MSX2+ had internally MSX-MUSIC, that was extensively used by most non-Konami MSX2 games. If not present, most of them will revert playing back to the AY-3-8910. Any MSX without built-in MSX-MUSIC can get it through external sound cartridge.
  2. Almost everything in MSX works at 5v, but there are some exceptions that use 12v, mostly sound cards and RS232 interfaces. There is more information about it here.
terriblefire
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Re: TFMSX rev1

Post by terriblefire »

Thanks, We decided early on not to put 12V on the board since its mostly redundant and almost nothing uses it.

The MSX-MUSIC thing is something that (in theory) we could implement in the ARM. We wanted to implement SCC first though. It wasnt something we wanted to do as part of the first iteration of the firmware for the board though and would probably do it later if there were requests.
———
"It is not necessarily a supply voltage at no load, but the amount of current it can provide when touched that
indicates how much hurting you shall receive."
terriblefire
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Re: TFMSX rev1

Post by terriblefire »

Another update for anyone interested

———
"It is not necessarily a supply voltage at no load, but the amount of current it can provide when touched that
indicates how much hurting you shall receive."
Karloch
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Re: TFMSX rev1

Post by Karloch »

terriblefire wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 4:31 pm Thanks, We decided early on not to put 12V on the board since its mostly redundant and almost nothing uses it.

The MSX-MUSIC thing is something that (in theory) we could implement in the ARM. We wanted to implement SCC first though. It wasnt something we wanted to do as part of the first iteration of the firmware for the board though and would probably do it later if there were requests.
If you have to choice between SCC or MSX-MUSIC for the first iteration, then SCC is indeed the smart choice. Without SCC, you will lose the music of the games that uses it, hearing only drums and sound effects from the AY-3-8910. Without MSX-MUSIC most games revert to the AY-3-8910 and you will still get music. Apart from that, I must confess that SCC is my favorite MSX sound chip.

MSX is bit of chaos in sound chips. From the following list, the first three are the widely used:
  • PSG. This is the AY-3-8910 that has been part of the MSX standard from the very beginning. It has 3 channels.
  • SCC (sample). A proprietary chip from Konami included as hardware extension in many of their games. It is a very early sample-based synthesis chip of 5 channels. Not part of the standard but no one cares about that, it is a must on any MSX.
  • OPLL (sample). This is what we call MSX-MUSIC (the name of the standard) or FM-PAC (the name of the original Panasonic sound card), implemented by the YM2413. As I told in the previous post, almost all MSX2 games uses this one, and, as an exception with Konami, F1-Spirit 3D Special use this chip instead of SCC. It has 6 channels + drums or 9 channels.
  • OPL1 (sample). This is what we call MSX-AUDIO, a FM sound standard implemented with the Y8950, more advanced than MSX-MUSIC, but way more expensive and way less used. It is used only in professional music software, Compile MSX2 games and newer games from the community. Similar to the MSX-MUSIC, it provides 9 channels or 6 channels + drums. MSX-AUDIO features also a ADPCM.
  • OPL4 (sample). This is the top-spec hardware sound card for MSX. It features the YMF278B, which offers 24 PCM channels at 44.1kHz and up to the 16 bit. With 2 MB on ROM instruments and support for up to 2 MB RAM to load his own instruments, it put the MSX audio level to the equivalent of a Sound Blaster AWE32. It was not part of the standard or the commercial life of the MSX, so it is only used by latter produced community titles.
  • OPM (sample). A special sound card developed only for Yamaha MSX computers that features a YM2151.
  • OPP (sample). A special sound card developed only for Yamaha MSX computers that features a YM2164.
Apart from the list, there are even less common sound cards for MSX that have even more sound chips, such as the Commodore 64 SID or the Sega Master System SN76489.
Gooeyblob
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Re: TFMSX rev1

Post by Gooeyblob »

Thanks Stephen!
terriblefire
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Re: TFMSX rev1

Post by terriblefire »

Karloch wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 5:34 pm
If you have to choice between SCC or MSX-MUSIC for the first iteration, then SCC is indeed the smart choice. Without SCC, you will lose the music of the games that uses it, hearing only drums and sound effects from the AY-3-8910. Without MSX-MUSIC most games revert to the AY-3-8910 and you will still get music. Apart from that, I must confess that SCC is my favorite MSX sound chip.
You misunderstand. SCC from the cartridges that have them work fine already. As would any external sound card. The idea was we would make it available generally via a software emulation in the ARM.
———
"It is not necessarily a supply voltage at no load, but the amount of current it can provide when touched that
indicates how much hurting you shall receive."
Karloch
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Re: TFMSX rev1

Post by Karloch »

terriblefire wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 5:45 pm You misunderstand. SCC from the cartridges that have them work fine already. As would any external sound card. The idea was we would make it available generally via a software emulation in the ARM.
Acknowledged :) Thank you for the great work and progress.
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arkadiusz.makarenko
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Re: TFMSX rev1

Post by arkadiusz.makarenko »

terriblefire wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 12:26 am ... STM32F730 which is unfortunately unobtainium right now.
Firmware is being set up to support stm32 -f730 f722. It could be easily migrated to F401 - or actually any other F4 chip (with tiny change in PCB - power), and probably Stm32G0B with dropping some elements... Issue is that all of them are currently difficult to get.

I will slowly will start looking for alternatives as it starts to annoy me.
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