REV 3 - REV 5 - The beginning (ST536)

All about the ST536 030 ST booster.
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JezC
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by JezC »

@WDB Have you found a source for the Xilinx CPLDs?
If so, would you be prepared to share it? I've still not seen any availability before next year for the fastest speed grade.

TIA
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exxos
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by exxos »

@JezC I have a 5ns one here you can have if you're stuck.. its been dropped on the floor tho, so a bit dusty and the pins need a tiny bit of TLC.

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viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
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JezC
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by JezC »

exxos wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:32 am @JezC I have a 5ns one here you can have if you're stuck.. its been dropped on the floor tho, so a bit dusty and the pins need a tiny bit of TLC.
@exxos Yes please - I'll get an order in for the first Rev 3 (possibly the second as well...depends on if my overtime has been included in the latest payslip ;) ) & hope I can persuade one of the repair guys at work to straighten the pins (they are swapping duff chips in & out all day, so have a far better chance of success than me)!

I'll also see what else I need/can afford!

I'd better order the other bits as well as the delivery dates keep extending further into next year for all sorts of component now...

:sigh:
WDB
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by WDB »

JezC wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:12 am @WDB Have you found a source for the Xilinx CPLDs?
If so, would you be prepared to share it? I've still not seen any availability before next year for the fastest speed grade.

TIA
I haven't sourced any of the chips yet.
Sheldor
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by Sheldor »

JezC wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:58 pm
I can't deny how the limited sales for the ST market make it difficult to justify the development effort but most (if not all) of us do appreciate all the efforts put into the various developments (especially with the RSI further hampering your progress).
I think part of the issue here might also be the presentation. Sure there are accelerator PCBs in the Shop but barely an explanation what the difference between both TF boards is. One is an earlier version without IDE and.. thats why its pricier than the next one? I'm fine with that, I just dont understand it. I also didn't see a BOM for that product, just a mentioning of a socket and a CPU. Thats obviously not everything. There is a BOM for the Amiga variant in the forum - is that one identical for Atari? I am sure all that can be found in here somewhere but honestly, it seems almost less of a hassle to buy an Amiga and be done with it. I get that this is not an entry level upgrade but if I could dump somewhere 200 bucks for a complete kit or at least get easy access to all the info I need while making the purchase, I probably would have ordered one months ago.
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JezC
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by JezC »

@Sheldor Exxos has made an ST-specific version which will give higher performance than the original version designed for the Amiga (and with different CPLD code to work with the ST).

Due to the much smaller batch of PCBs for a development version, each PCB works out as more expensive than the Amiga version.
The price for the ST-specific version is pretty much at cost.

Some of the other forum members have built various TF536 boards for the wider community in the past @PhilC built one for my H4... which I have since broken (the H4 that is, the TF536 wasn't plugged in when I had the accident, fortunately).

Maybe if you raise a new topic - or reply on the topic from PhilC about TF536 for the ST... someone might offer their services.
I'm not confident to build one for anybody else just yet (trying to improve my SMT skills again first) otherwise I would offer...

Good luck anyway & please let us know what you decide.
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exxos
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by exxos »

@Sheldor The BOM is at the bottom of the page https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/last/TF536/index.htm

I think a lot of information is simply got missed but I do keep repeating myself.. But what like @JezC Said plus more..

The roundup is :

The original TF536 I had problems getting it working in my H5. A second unit I could not get working at all. @PhilC Built and verified it was working. So I did some tweaks to the design to building more specific "bug fixes" for the Atari.

I also shifted a lot of components from the top of the board to the bottom. This saves users having to solder the regulator and a few other bits and pieces. I made it as easy as possible for assembly requiring the minimal amount of parts and work soldering.. But of course you still need a lot of work soldering the chips on anyway.

Also the original TF536 needed a TOS decoder board. these are like £25, so while my version of the TF536 is more expensive, it has built on ROM socket and decoding. But also like @JezC Says, the Atari boards are like 200x less popular than Amiga stuff.

As mentioned, my version runs at 50Mhz all the time. So general usage of the machine will run faster. The original TF536 only ran at full speed when accessing faster RAM. But I think a couple people might have complained that there is " no difference" between the boards if you are only using fast ram. Fair enough, really depends what people want to run.

The original TF536 IDE port needed a special cable making. I "fixed" that in a couple of revisions and made a couple of mistakes rendering it useless. I think I got a handful of later boards made which should be fixed IDE port. But my motivation for the project ran out. I'm not going to spend 100's of hours debugging and updating something which nobody wants. But sadly this is just the way of the Atari world. I half feel like closing my store and just selling Amiga stuff because it requires zero effort and I get 200x more sales than Atari stuff. As I otherwise have to sell 200 different items to get one sale per kit kind of thing.
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viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
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People should find solutions to problems, not find problems with solutions.
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JezC
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by JezC »

@exxos I hope you don't give up on the Atari developments...but will fully support whatever you decide!

My order for some of the ST versions is waiting on me fixing my H4 & H5 plus the CPLDs etc becoming available (and finances...the bonus has been delayed a month until October payslip :()
Once I can get the parts and have the bonus I'll be ordering some more kit from Harry ;)

I'm very interested to see how well Cubase 3 & Logic run on the ST TF536!

As always, I for one really value your efforts & try to support you as best I can.
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exxos
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by exxos »

A interesting development. The problems I had with the -38 DMA on the H4 do not seem to be apparent on the H5!

Mostly things were only screwing up when TOS was loaded into alt-ram. The floppy drive would start malfunctioning. However this does not seem to be the case on the H5. But of course the H5 does has a more elaborate set of fixes on the DMA circuit than the H4 does. So I wonder if I have inherently fixed the TF536 problem without actually knowing it on the H5 :shrug:
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/store2/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
Just because a lot of people agree on something, doesn't make it a fact. ~exxos ~
People should find solutions to problems, not find problems with solutions.
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Re: REV 3 - The beginning

Post by exxos »

This is another problem I have yet to work out..

Is benchmarking from TOS206 is half the speed of EMUTOS.

EG:

EMUTOS.jpg
EMUTOS.jpg (184.11 KiB) Viewed 1837 times
NO_BLIT.jpg
NO_BLIT.jpg (205.36 KiB) Viewed 1837 times

I just confirmed the results with TOS206. Albeit my results are even slower :shrug: but I do not know what firmware I have in the TF536 currently.

With running GB6 from alt-ram I get about 200% on the first test and about 410% ROM speed.

When running with MAPROM, I get about 250% on the first test and 795% on ROM access.

So why is EMUTOS like twice as fast as TOS206 ?!

EDIT:

Now I have tried EMUTOS again, showing the same speed as TOS206 now ?1 :WTF: :dizzy:
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
https://www.exxosforum.co.uk/atari/store2/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1585 Have you done the Mandatory Fixes ?
Just because a lot of people agree on something, doesn't make it a fact. ~exxos ~
People should find solutions to problems, not find problems with solutions.
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